Tuesday, November 07, 2006

SoC versus SotC

Some commenters have questioned the tradeoff in the last post. I don't deny that you do give up a significant amount of damage by not using SoC. To my mind, though, the added flexibility and regeneration of SotC make up for it.

However, not everyone will agree with my valuation of the tradeoff. So let's examine some cold numbers.

Let's take a paladin with 1000 AP, a 3.8 speed weapon with 75 DPS, and +300 dmg/heal. Assume she is fighting a mob with 40% damage reduction. Also assume that she is spending all of her time attacking.

Let A be her Attack Power.
Let s be her weapon speed.
Let d be her DPS.
let P be her spellpower
Let R be the percentage of damage that gets through the armor.

Base dps = [d + a/14]*R = 87.9 dps

SoC dps = [ds + as/14]*0.7*7/60 + 0.29*P*7/60 = 55.6 dps

SotC dps = 306/14 * R = 13.1 dps

So basically, the SoC paladin is doing 143.5 dps compared to the SotC paladin's 101 dps. So by going SotC you sacrifice about 42 dps, or about 30% of your damage.

(I am ignoring crits, talents, and time spent not meleeing. Most of this affects both sides equally. I'm also ignoring Judgement of Command, as I don't think it would really be spammed by a melee-healing paladin. It does add another 30 dps or so, if spammed constantly.)

So the tradeoff becomes 30% less damage in exchange for 40% more Light/Wisdom procs, increased chance of renewing Judgements, and added flexibility in chosing when to start a heal.

Given that paladin damage is last on my list of priorities in a raid (though it is still on the list!), it's a tradeoff that I am willing to make.

As an aside, note that in either case, the majority of a paladin's damage comes from her base damage. The numbers seem relatively reasonable to me, though the weapon DPS is a bit high. You can always use your own values in the equations and see how your personal trade-off works. SoC does scale though, while SotC does not, so the better your gear is, the more attractive SoC becomes.

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

If damage isn't the point, you should be using lasting judgement. You'd stay out of aoe range, and are better able to react to changing conditions (adds, sudden deaths, etc.). Trash mobs rarely last past 30 seconds, too. Also, you then can make better benefit of mostly healing gear.

Naturally, some of this will change in TBC, but this currently the way the game is. The farther out of the action a person is, the more aware of their surroundings they are. I've been there, I know how it is.

I applaud you trying to get into melee range, but you're adding far less benefit to the raid, then if you stood back and healed. Of course, if you don't care about efficiency and other people don't mind carrying your weight in a raid, then go for it.

The whole point to meleeing is to do damage. I've been in MC and had fun meleeing for awhile. If you're serious about being up there, you have to do everything you can to do damage, including spamming consecrate if you have it. Mana runs low? That's what drinking is for. Hang back a bit and drink up while everyone else goes to the next pull.

SotC is good when you're soloing and want to regen mana or life quickly, and don't have time to drink/eat. That's about it.

SoC is good when you're trying to damage, which should be your goal if you're meleeing. And that means having a good 2hander, as equivilant ilevel 1handers do much less damage.

GSH said...

I respectfully disagree. In my view, pure healing is an inefficient use of a paladin. Some damage is greater than no damage, and a pure healing paladin just leads to greater overhealing on the majority of fights.

In my experience, fights with melee-healing paladins go faster and smoother.

I've tried both styles of play, and in my opinion, paladin healing from the front lines while meleeing is the optimal strategy. Not to mention the most fun. :)

Gitr/Deadr said...

I'd rather have a pally carrying a big stick fighting with me any day. I'll take the aggro, you keep me alive. We'll both pound the crap out of stuff.

Anonymous said...

Fun is subjective, of course.

However, efficiency only means as much as progression allows. As long as the mobs go down with a minimum of deaths, there isn't much else that matters. Hence, why some paladins can melee when stuff like MC is on farm.

When you get to places like BWL and AQ40, though, you'll find melee-healing is grossly inefficient. Places there need so much healing, and indeed, count on paladins healing in order to win. Meleeing will only put your raid in more danger, as there is much more damage incoming.

Don't fool yourself; MC is EZ mode.

"a pure healing paladin just leads to greater overhealing on the majority of fights."

To put it bluntly, this only applies to MC on farm. And even then, shit happens. You're merrily meleeing away, oblivious to the 2nd core hound that's coming over the hill, and the hunter that's backing up, right into a surger or a pair of giants. Priests go down, and suddenly, overhealing isn't the issue. It's having enough healing. Because you're in melee gear, your heals are weak, and you can't compensate. People die. Oops, you just wiped the raid because you were more concerned about yourself.

I can keep a tank up by myself in MC. And several DPS people at the same time. True, if we're doing good, I'm not healing much, but I also lead the raid so I can keep a watchful eye on our surroundings - the value of this cannot be underestimated. DPS'ers develop tunnel vision on their target. Healers are watching life bars and playing whack-a-mole.

In short, you could be just like all the rest, or be something more.

Or you can make the mob go down 1-2 seconds faster, which I'm sure is more satisfying on a personal level. Knowing that you're tickling it with a feather, while everyone else is doing your work for you.

Seriously, have you looked at damage meters and seen where you are on it? See how small a percentage you are compared to everyone else? A priest keeping SW:P up is probably doing just as much damage, and still outhealing you.

GSH said...

I think you and I have fundamentally different ideas about what it means to melee in raids as a paladin.

You make a lot of assumptions which are simply not true. For example, gear. I melee in my healing gear. I have Cloudkeeper Legplates, but I wear Chitinous Legguards in raids. I use a healing weapon instead of a dps weapon (well, technically I use my Gavel for both right now, but back when I was using The Unstoppable Force and Simone's Cultivating Hammer, I would use Simone's in raids).

As for BWL and AQ40, I've seen all of BWL and first parts of AQ40, and nothing there has made me change my mind. In fact, some fights, like Chrommaggus, you do your guild a disservice by NOT meleeing.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Chromaggus - I know what you're thinking. You can cleanse while swinging a weapon, and thus you think you can get away with meleeing.

This isn't entirely a good idea, for the simple reason that all paladins need to focus on spamming their decurse key. If one person gets all 5 debuffs on them, they get mutated and mind controlled. In that state, all you can do is kill the person (or chain fear them). And a paladin that melees, needs to move in and out of line of sight.

That will detract from your cleansing time. Also, while meele'ing, you are probably going to attempt to judge seals. You can't cast a seal and cleanse at the same time, and believe me, you need all your paladins focused on cleansing. Even with 5 paladins focused solely on cleansing, you can still run into problems with someone getting all 5 debuffs.

I understand where you're coming from, but there are only 2 reasons for you to be meele'ing:

1. To do damage
2. To keep a judgement up

In your healing gear, you aren't doing much damage to affect the raid any, so reason #1 is ruled out. Lasting Judgement rules #2 out. In addtion, on Chromaggus, no one should be taking damage, if they are good at moving in and out. Therefore, no need for Judgement of light. Your healers will forever stay out of line of sight, so need for Judgement of wisdom. That leaves hunters and mages. If they are good raiders, they came prepared with pots and other buffs for this fight (mageblood, major mana pots, etc.). In addition, Hunters can feign and drink up. Mages can evocate, which one evocate during the fight should be all that's needed.

There is no logical reason to melee. Except to have fun, of course. I have no problems with people who say they melee to have fun. I just have problems with people who thing they are being useful while meeling. In the grand scheme of things, compared to DPS classes, you're a minor itch on the big dog's ass.

But if you've seen all of BWL, you know you're not meele'ing Razorgore, Vael, Firemaw, and Broodlord. For AQ40, you're not meleeing Skeram(our guild is just starting AQ40, so haven't been farther than this). And if you've been to each of these fights, you'd know why.

So why are you meeling again?